[lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Reviews - Input Requested
Mike Ounsworth <Mike.Ounsworth@entrust.com> Wed, 24 September 2025 12:52 UTC
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From: Mike Ounsworth <Mike.Ounsworth@entrust.com>
To: Peter Gutmann <pgut001=40cs.auckland.ac.nz@dmarc.ietf.org>, Mike Ounsworth <ounsworth+ietf@gmail.com>, Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com>
Thread-Topic: [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Reviews - Input Requested
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Date: Wed, 24 Sep 2025 12:52:38 +0000
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Subject: [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Reviews - Input Requested
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Hi Peter, I respectfully disagree. This is an issue of "MUST support" vs "MUST only support" vs "MAY additionally support". Let's say you deploy your PKI service in a public cloud where it sits behind some massively multi-tenant public HTTP proxy. And say the PKI client is running on top of the http module from the latest version of python. Then it's plausible that both client and server would prefer to do HTTP/3 over QUIC (or whatever the latest and greatest web transport is) — likely in fact if that client and server have been doing a lengthy back-and-forth of which the CMC payload is just one part. Why is it to anybody's advantage to force them to open a new TCP and TLS session on HTTP/1.1 just to carry that one CMC payload? There are some protocols where the payload is intricately tied to the transport — ex.: how you parse the payload changes based on the HTTP headers, or security of your payload depends on a signature carried in a standardized HTTP header. Then it becomes important for correctness and security to lock the version of the payload to the version of the transport because the syntax and semantics of the transport could change over time. But I don't think that's the case here; my understanding is that the CMC DER payload is self-contained, so I don't think CMC *really* cares how it is transported (HTTP 1.1, HTTP 3.0/QUIC, floppy disk, ticker tape wrapped around a carrier pidgeon — correct me if I'm wrong Sean or Joe). I think it's fair to say that everybody implementing this standard MUST support, at a minimum, HTTP/1.1, but I don't see any good reason to forbid versions of HTTP newer than 1999 (RFC2616). --- Mike Ounsworth ________________________________ From: Peter Gutmann <pgut001=40cs.auckland.ac.nz@dmarc.ietf.org> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2025 6:40 AM To: Mike Ounsworth <ounsworth+ietf@gmail.com>; Sean Turner <sean@sn3rd.com> Cc: LAMPS <spasm@ietf.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Reviews - Input Requested Mike Ounsworth <ounsworth+ietf@ gmail. com> writes: >we ran into similar HTTPdir comments with the recent CMP-over-HTTP (RFC9811), >we decided there that we actually don't care one bit whether you want to do >this over HTTP 1. 1, Mike Ounsworth <ounsworth+ietf@gmail.com> writes: >we ran into similar HTTPdir comments with the recent CMP-over-HTTP (RFC9811), >we decided there that we actually don't care one bit whether you want to do >this over HTTP 1.1, HTTP 2.0 or some future HTTP 4.8. Ugh, no, it should be HTTP 1.1 and no other. PKI protocols use HTTP as a substrate, not as a means of downloading YouTube videos, so shouldn't be required to implement the huge complexity (and attack surface) of HTTP/2 just to be able to get a certificate from A to B. This was explicitly stated during the HTTP/2 standardisation process when someone asked for support for HTTP/2 as a substrate for non-web use and the WG response was "let them eat HTTP/1". Peter. _______________________________________________ Spasm mailing list -- spasm@ietf.org To unsubscribe send an email to spasm-leave@ietf.org Any email and files/attachments transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. If this message has been sent to you in error, you must not copy, distribute or disclose of the information it contains. Please notify Entrust immediately and delete the message from your system.
- [lamps] CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Reviews… Sean Turner
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Mike Ounsworth
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Mike Ounsworth
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Peter Gutmann
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Peter Gutmann
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Salz, Rich
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Mike Ounsworth
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Sean Turner
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Mike Ounsworth
- [lamps] Re: CMCbis: SECDIR & HTTP Directorate Rev… Sean Turner